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Just as I thought I was finally starting to get to a good place in my head again, I got hit with a trigger last night that sent me into a tailspin.

We just finished building a new pool, which has a hot tub as well that we turned on for the first time. My wife kids and I all got in, it was really nice, and thats when it hit me. She had sex with her AP in his hot tub on multiple occassions. The mind movies started, and I started envisioning her and him making out, and it progressing from there. I can usually tolerate the thought of her AP being the "aggressor" and of her being a naive pushover with no awareness of boundaries or assertiveness, but the thought of her being a willing and even eager participant causes the pit of my stomach to just fall away. I just felt so frustrated that this event, which should have just been a happy moment, was tainted, just like so many other things. Right now, I dont even feel like ever getting in that hot tub again. I feel like filling it in with sand. I tried my best to pretend everything was ok and when she went in for a hug today before she left for work, I just told her that I didnt feel like being close to her right now and why. She said she was sorry and didnt know what to say to make me feel better. I said I didnt know what would make me feel better either.

My Dad also drowned in a hot tub when I was 12 (he had trhe temp way up, and just fell asleep after a long day and slipped under). For some reason, Im not nearly as triggered by his death in one than I am of her being intimate with someone else in one. I tried to hide my feelings from her because shes been on edge and I recently told her I was finally starting to feel better about things again and didnt want to disapoint or worry her. But man, Im just feeling really heartbroken, frustrated and just like it will never be the same with her again.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your father.

*****

Gently, I see triggers as pain coming to the surface to be released. I reframed and almost welcomed them. I'm probably still vulnerable to them, but now, several years out, I don't seem to have much residual pain, so the triggers are annoyances more than anything else.

I place a lot of value on hot tub and natural hot spring sex. If my W had had affair sex in a hot tub, I'd see it as an especially big betrayal.

OTOH, having worked to resolve the crisis, I think I'd very much enjoy hot tub/spring sex again, and I hope that's in your future, whatever you do with your M.

TMI and T/J: Just ... I found the hot tub/spring experience to be exciting, illicit sex (I mean we were naked and outside) with someone one I truly loved and within the bonds of a legit relationship.... Nothing better, and I hope you get to have that experience. Unfortunately, our last hot water experience was decades ago....

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:39 PM, Sunday, August 21st]

Intimate betrayal trauma is unlike anything else. It is a much deeper,more profound injury. If you get mugged by a stranger, although traumatic, it comes withntgecrralization or understanding that there are shitty people in this world. If your house is devastated by a tornado, you recognize that vast an unfortunate act of God and hopefully rebuild. But when your intimate partner betrays you, it is more than just life being hard. They were the one person you trusted to have your back. Quite often, they have cemented this trust by standing in front of family, friends, and even their diety. So when they stab you in the back, it's not just an injury, but an existential catastrophe. If you cannot trust them, then therecis no one that can be trusted. I'm not surexwhich CEO was criticized for not hiring adulterers, but his was response was that if they could betray their even their spouse, what's stopping them from cheating me, when I'm just their boss.

The seriousness of betrayal has been underscored in so many ways. In ancient cultures and some w, it was a capital offense, as it threatened the very fabric of society. With modern brain scans, infidelity causes revulsion, and lights up the same part of the brain that eating rancid food does. It would seem that we are evolutionarily adapted to reject the cheater in order to ensure the survival of the group.

There is no wonder you are triggering as your primitive brain is telling you one thing and your prefrontal lodes are telling you another. As long as you have doubts or unanswered questions, your amygdala will scream at you to address them. I think that this is the main reason so few marriages survive infidelity and of those thatvdo, even fewer end up in a good place.

The best of all options from a purely pragmatic standpoint is full R with a remorseful WS and a forgiving BS. It just makes financial sense. But there are a lot of variables in that. I wish I had a truly remorseful WS who, at the core, was a good and decent person. I didn't have that so I bounced and it cost me. What it did not cost me was my sense of dignity a d my soul. Still have those. Hope you find your way

I can sort of relate to this. My H had sex with the adultery co-conspirator in his hotel room while he was working overseas. Hotel rooms were a HUGE trigger for me for YEARS .

I decided that I was going to take back...or OWN triggers. I REFUSED to allow them to take any more of MY life from me...they already took enough!!! I was like a bull in a China shop when it came to triggers...just bulldozing through them...owning them all over the place.

Except for the hotel room . I tried many different ways...but the thought of what happened in the hotel room between them just kept bringing me to tears every time we were in one .

My H travels for work...and I go with him...so we stay in hotels often. I NEEDED to find a way to OWN this because I would be DAMNED if I was going to keep crying...or stay at home!!

I found a way . I have written about it before...and it is a little risque . BUT...I found a way to OWN hotel rooms...and I can honestly say I ENJOY being in them again. We are actually staying in a hotel right now...and I am looking forward to later !!

DON'T let the last GOOD memory of a hot tub for your wife be one where it is with the adultery co-conspirator!!! You OWN that hot tub Dear Sir...literally . So now you can find a way to OWN it mentally and emotionally as well !! I can bet that ANYTHING with YOU in that hot tub will be way MORE enjoyable for you and your wife than anything with her and the adultery co-conspirator .

Unfortunately this is one of the problems when you search and get all of the details. I think the BS who is satisfied with the fact that they slept together, or even they slept together x number of times can lump the affair into a single bucket. Much easier to deal and probably reconcile.

I was one one who dug deep and hard. Instead of dealing with the x number, I siloed each encounter. Sex with a condom. sex without a condom. Anal sex. Sex ending with a facial. Sex with him on the day she had sex with me. Sex with candles and lingerie like she did with me And so on, I’m sure you get the drift. I didn’t have just one mind movie. I had the free trial of almost unlimited nasty mind movies.

On top of that, many have to deal with the non sexual, but potentially more devastating dates or special things they did with their AP. Romantic dinners and walks in the park, sneaking kisses in the office, or even trash talking you to their AP.

I was told to try to lump all the things into the single bucket. It was good advice, but something I just couldn’t or more likely wouldn’t do. There are many here who have reconciled and perhaps they can give you advice on how to accomplish this.

Instead of reliving the instances of her cheating in your apartment, or in the hot tub, or car. Just try to forgive the whole thing again, much easier said than done, but might work in this instance

Sisoon:

Gently, I see triggers as pain coming to the surface to be released. I reframed and almost welcomed them. I'm probably still vulnerable to them, but now, several years out, I don't seem to have much residual pain, so the triggers are annoyances more than anything else.

Reframing has been useful for me at times, but the issue with seeing triggers like that for me, is that it's never seemingly released for me. I keep having them over and over. They don't come to the surface and evaporate. They come to the surface like a ball full of air, I push it down, and it pops right back up later on.

I place a lot of value on hot tub and natural hot spring sex. If my W had had affair sex in a hot tub, I'd see it as an especially big betrayal.

This is interesting. Can I ask why you feel that way? Is there something personal to you that makes the value of hot tub sex especially significant? If say the hot tub was inside, and there was nobody that could potentially see, would that make a difference to the "illicit" nature, or is there something else about it?

Also, when Ive asked my WW how that even worked and what positions were involved with that, I always get the "I cant remember" answer. Is full blown sex even practical with both peoples lower half completely underwater? Of course there could be other ways I would imagine, but have always wondered about the physics of that.

Justsomeguy:

There is no wonder you are triggering as your primitive brain is telling you one thing and your prefrontal lodes are telling you another. As long as you have doubts or unanswered questions, your amygdala will scream at you to address them.

There are two key areas as I see it that must be addressed in order to successfully R. The first is being able to feel safe and secure in the present and the future, and it's this aspect where your comment above makes total sense. For me personally, I feel fairly confident (as close as its ever gonna get) that she wont ever betray me again, so as far as the future goes, I think Im OK. My issue is with the second big bucket, which is accepting and forgiving the past. Im just not sure, when I think about the specifics, that I want to live with someone who's done that. Doesn't matter one lick if she wouldn't ever do it again. Whats done is done.

Want2BHappyAgain:

The reclaiming strategy can be useful, but for me, I don't know if Id ever be able to do what they did in our hot tub without seeing her as she was with another man. It would be like giving my mind movies their own real life movie.

waitedwaytoolong:

I was one one who dug deep and hard. Instead of dealing with the x number, I siloed each encounter.

I do this. Maybe not with every single one, but with the ones I know of that are at all unique, as you said, in our apartment, and in the hot tub. The times in his bedroom were all pretty much the same and theres not a specific trigger tied to those the same way as there is with the hot tub. It's hard to see it as one pile, but thats actually not a bad way to try and see it. Thanks for the insight.

[This message edited by gainingclosure at 6:52 PM, Monday, August 22nd]

I hope you can one day minimize the impact of the triggers.

6 of my cousins have the same first name as the cheater OW. I had to deal with that.

Other triggers I worked through but the one remaining is jazz music. I was never a big fan but not I’m not a fan at all, as that was one of their shared passions. If I hear it in a public place I’m ok.

But if it’s played at home - it is immediately turned off.

But it does not linger or irk me the whole day like it used to.

I don't know if Id ever be able to do what they did in our hot tub without seeing her as she was with another man. It would be like giving my mind movies their own real life movie.

OH No Sir...you can OWN that hot tub in so many ways...and NONE of them would be doing the same as they did . Taking things back is for YOU...in whatever way WORKS .

when Ive asked my WW how that even worked and what positions were involved with that, I always get the "I cant remember" answer.

Of course she remembers, and she remembers it vividly, it's just she won't tell you, why, wouldn't surmise whether it be shame, guilt or trying to spare you.

Unfortunately as you found out, the imagination is sometimes more powerful than the truth, and much as folks tell you to "reclaim" it, the only reason you made it this far is you both had to confront some ugly truths.

True reconciliation doesn't include "I don't remember" while the wound may eventually heal over time it will still be a trigger.

GC,

I think the fact that your WW and the "kids" were in the hot tub at the same time is icky, there is a mixture of innocence and disgustingness almost like the kids are bathing in the same water as OM.

You wrote, I always get the "I cant remember" answer.

I don't know how you can recover when she is still lying to you. Did she write out a timeline and take a polygraph?

Particularly when she is still lying about this specific situation.

Did the OM even put enough cholorine in the hot tub to kill off amoebas?

[This message edited by survrus at 6:39 PM, Tuesday, August 23rd]

Of course she remembers, and she remembers it vividly, it's just she won't tell you, why, wouldn't surmise whether it be shame, guilt or trying to spare you.

This, exactly. I realize you've been married a great many years since Dday, and the two of you have been through a lot. Lots of water under the bridge. That sort of shared struggle builds bonds. Yet in your profile I hear so much internalized blame shifting, and in your posts I see so little evidence of her having done any work. To me it doesn't feel as if you've actually reconciled. More like you've white knuckled it and toughed it out. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I am. I do know that millions of wives are married to men with highly immersive, time-consuming hobbies, such as golf, and do not choose to cheat on their husbands. Though here in the Midwest, there is a trope about deer hunting opener, or fishing season opener, being the time when men who are non-hunters or non-fishermen have plentiful MILF opportunities.

For what it's worth, I've had sex numerous times, with numerous women, in numerous hot tubs. I can remember it all vividly.

First time was around age 20, a drunken hook up with a woman I was partying with. We tried doing it while both of us were still in the water. I sort of stood on the bottom, for leverage. She used her buoyancy to wrap her legs around me, arms on my shoulders. At first it was sensual and amazing -- her wet body, the sense of near weightlessness. But I quickly became overheated and almost passed out.

All other times involved using the edge of the pool in some manner. Me sitting on the edge with my legs dangling in the water, and her giving me head, or sitting on me. Her, laying on her back on the edge, or leaning forward over the edge, etc. The idea is that you need to keep a fair amount of yourself out of the water because you can quickly overheat. You can't really enjoy the sensuality of the water because it's too hot. It's more like using the edge as a prop for certain positions.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 8:40 PM, Wednesday, August 24th]

Survrus:

I think the fact that your WW and the "kids" were in the hot tub at the same time is icky, there is a mixture of innocence and disgustingness almost like the kids are bathing in the same water as OM.

To clarify, it's not the same hot tub. We moved states and this happened 17 years ago at the OMs house. There is no way I would ever bathe in a hot tub where something like that took place.

Tren0R201 / Butforthegrace:

Of course she remembers, and she remembers it vividly, it's just she won't tell you, why, wouldn't surmise whether it be shame, guilt or trying to spare you.

Its certainly plausible that my wife is lying about not remembering to spare me additional pain, but she has told me about a lot of other very hurtful details that she could have kept hidden, so I tend not to think she is lying when she says she doesn't clearly remember some things. I can recall the first time we lost our virginity (which was with each other), but I couldn't tell you any details that go beyond that I wore a condom and where we were. I don't remember if either of us even had an orgasm, if we did any other positions other than missionary, if we did any oral, etc. And that was a pretty significant event.

in your profile I hear so much internalized blame shifting, and in your posts I see so little evidence of her having done any work. To me it doesn't feel as if you've actually reconciled. More like you've white knuckled it and toughed it out.

I would agree we haven't truly reconciled and I dont really know if its in me to forgive her for all of it, but I also don't think Ive been white knuckling it the whole time. Her betrayal aside, she's actually a very easy person to get along with. Not mean or demeaning at all. Fairly understanding and empathetic. There is definitely a lot of love between us, but what she feels has been a monumental amount of work on her part seems like not enough for me. That said, there is almost no amount of work she could do that I would consider to be enough. She's not the worst wayward out there by a longshot, but I do get jealous of some of the waywards I see posting on here who seem to have thrown themselves into lifelong grief and a burning desire to atone for their own actions.

[This message edited by gainingclosure at 5:12 PM, Friday, August 26th]

I am not of the mindset that your WS has a photographic memory. Maybe the details are hazy. Maybe they were drunk. Maybe they did it so many times that the specifics aren’t all that memorable. My wh put it like this: "TISL we had sex so many times in our bed that I think the specifics all merge so I can’t tell you exactly what happened and when…".

That being g said my WHs A went in for years and the 5 months where I was working out of state allowed them to use our house for their activities a lot - and they did 3-4 days a week sometimes multiple times In The same day. Idk your wife’s situation. I suspect she could recall the event in the hot tub even if it was multiple times but to expect more than "I sat on the side" while he… is likely asking too much.

Maybe I’m lucky that my wh and the AP did it everywhere in my house and my car (and his) and parking lots and hotels etc to the point where avoiding all of it wasn’t possible without my becoming a hermit. I had little choice but to own it and I too decided to refuse to let them take away things I enjoyed just because they did too.