SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi everyone,

Where to start... I've been married to my wife for 15 years. We've two kids who are 13 and 12. The eldest is on the spectrum and we have issues with tantrums and all the things that come with being on the spectrum. This plays a big part of our family life.

So, why am I here? I don't think my wife is cheating on me but I don't think she's being entirely honest and I would like your opinions on what I should do and where I should go from here?

First off, I snoop. I check her ChatGPT history and Google photo uploads. I occasionally look in her phone but she has a private telegram account that I can't see into. She's recently (just this weekend) changed her Whatsapp to have a face ID and changed her phone password. We haven't discussed this.

Where are my suspicions?
She started a new job a while ago and worked their previously part time. When she left the first time she said to one of her colleagues "They don't want me" to which her colleague replied "Well I want you". She told this to a friend via whatsapp.

A few months later after she started the job properly, she had a chatgpt chat about sexual harassment in the workplace. She said that a colleague was mucking around and encouraging her to see his penis and to touch it. She dismissed ChatGPT's advice and said that she was probably encouraging it.

I think I've lost trust in her but she's always been the flirty kind, but never acted upon it.

Roll on to this weekend and I was looking through her Google photos and saw in her trash, a picture of another mans penis. He has the same skin tone as this guy from work so I've put two and two together but haven't quite made 4. Did he send this or was it someone else? The file was a .png not a .jpeg as you'd expect from a camera phone picture. Since then, she's paused her Google photos uploads on my PC so I can't see them.
Now, a new development this morning. She's got a ChatGpt chat that asking "please help me politely message someone who is pursuing me. that I do find them attractive and they know but I'm married so I can't be doing the messaging and shouldn't be flirting"

She goes on to say "he's someone I know through a friend and I flirted with him a lot on a night out. He knows I'm married and said this on the night out which snapped me out of it!! He's been pursuing me by text ever since"

I think I know who this guy might be but then again, do I?

I'm going out of my mind here. What do I do? How do I bring up that I've seen her google photos and chatgpt without admitting I've been snooping?

I don't want my marriage to end and I don't believe she does too so I really need some advice or a friendly ear to help me out. I haven't spoke to anyone about this and honestly, I get so upset thinking about it that it makes me want to cry.

Drag this out into the daylight. If she accuses you of snooping ask her why she’s changing passwords and if she now believes that you have a lesser right to the truth of your marriage than she does. Order Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass and read it with her.

Welcome The400Mini.

Nice to meet you but so sorry it had to be here.

My advice to keep digging and find irrefutable proof that she is indeed cheating on you.

Your wife changed her passwords because she knows that you are getting suspicious so she will try her best to cover her tracks.

You can hire a private investigator too and give the private investigator the evidence that you have.

If you tell your wife now that you are suspicious of her having an affair she will lie through her teeth and come up with some "snow story" to explain everything away that she's just innocently being harassed by the guy.

Sorry that you are struggling.

[This message edited by Dorothy123 at 12:57 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

This is called playing with fire. It looks like she enjoys the attention she gets from men but might not take the next step into an affair.
I also think you need a conversation about why she is doing this. Is it boredom? With a husband, two children and a job she should have a very full life, so what is her behavior about? If she tries to gaslight, accuse you of snooping, somehow make you the bad guy, don’t let her do it. She might try blowing smoke at you to confuse you, shame you, belittle you. Don’t fall for it.
Her behavior is not what a wife should be doing. Period. So stick to your questions about who, what, where and when. You need answers.

Maybe try to ask her general questions about work. Lead the conversation to the topic of flirting, and even what you two agree as boundaries in your marriage. Try to have this be a gentle and safe conversation. It may be that she really has not gone for the bait yet.

If she admits this guy's is pursuing her. Then take a proactive approach and report him to company and blow him in to his wife.

Once you know the truth and have things out in the light. I highly suggest reading the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. You need stronger boundaries.💪

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 2:56 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

Found the photos in deleted folder Google Photos?
There might be some setting I’m missing, but generally photos don’t get into Google Photos unless they are downloaded or saved to a directory that is defined as one that Google Photos monitors.
What I’m getting at is that if the OM sent a dick-pic on some chat program, your wife has to download it from that app before it can get into GP. It indicates intent and interest – she doesn't just click on the pic in whatever app it was sent and then delete or move on but downloads to open and view. In other words this isn’t an accident.

Your dilemma is that you feel caught between two bad options. If you confront, you are admitting that you have been "spying" on your wife. If you don’t... well... that opens up for her progressing further along this path.
It boils down IMHO which would be the lesser of two evils. Make her angry because you invaded her privacy BEFORE this goes further or make her angry when you invade her privacy WHEN she has started a full-fledged sexual affair.
Which one puts more risk on you and your family?

Imagine these two scenarios:
You "break" her trust and confront now...
Or... You wait for hard proof and confront maybe 4-6 months from now when you realize OM maybe gave your wife a STD that explains the itch in your crotch.

I’m guessing that this developing into a full-fledged affair is worse.
Frankly it already might be there... but if so then there is still nothing to lose by confronting.

And that’s what I would do. I would confront with what you already know because IMHO that’s enough. To confront all that’s needed is that YOU are convinced she’s on a slippery slope, and to be clear on what you need to feel safer. You don’t need to prove anything. This isn’t a court of law or a police investigation. All that’s needed is that you believe something is going on.
Don’t have to give sources and can even make some up. Like... you could tell her that you got an anonymous call from her colleague warning about their interactions, or that someone saw them and felt a need to warn you. But frankly – I wouldn’t even bother with the how you know – you know.

Confront in statements more than questions. You KNOW what’s going on, and even if she denies you KNOW what’s going on. You don’t have to prove anything. I suggest springing this on her at the very earlies opportunity:

I KNOW you have been interacting inappropriately with your male co-worker. I know he has sent you inappropriate pictures, and I know you have been accepting them. I have been warned about your interactions and want to step in NOW so you can make an educated and conscious decision about your future actions.
I want to know what your intent is with this, because this is unacceptable to me. I can’t prevent you from flirting, dating, sexting or doing WHATEVER you want with this man, but just be very aware and clear of the REALITY that you can’t do this as my wife. I will not allow you to disrespect me and our family that way.
You have options. You can carry on like this or you can come completely clean to me, be accountable for what has happened already and convince me that there is no future threat to us.
No – it’s not enough to tell me you will quit. I need to know who OM is (and yes – I intend to communicate with him). I need to see how you communicate (yes – I need to see your social media). You need to offer me ongoing assurance that this is over.

I’m not forcing you to do anything. You are totally free to frame the walls with pics of his dick, but I am equally free to refuse to take part in infidelity.

And then allow her to respond.
You do not concede a single issue. You don’t accept that she doesn’t tell you who OM is. You don’t promise to be quiet about this. Basically you need an unconditional surrender before you have a chance at reconciling the marriage.

A couple thoughts:

1.). Your wife flirted with this man enough at a party to make him believe she is very interested. That’s a red flag for a married woman. Plus, how did he get her contact info? Flirting is one red flag but giving out her phone number is and even bigger red flag.

2.). I also think if you see all the communication between them you’d probably see that while she is telling him she is married, she isn’t being very forceful and she is also giving mixed signals. Her chatgtp shows that since she wants to tell him she is attracted to him but that since she is married they have to stop. Why the need to tell him she is attracted to him, just tell him to stop and block him if she really wanted it to stop.

Basically, your wife is enjoying the attention, she has admitted to being attracted to him and she really is not forcefully pushing him away and is keeping all this secret from you! She is easing into an affair and will give in eventually if you don’t bring it into the open and put a stop to it.

[This message edited by Rfv3311 at 4:23 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

Bigger....💯🎯

The400mini...my opinion is we as marriage couples should really have zero relational privacy. We are supposed to be one.

Sure privacy when you are taking a crap or popping zits or something like that...but relationally....nah.

[This message edited by WoodThrush2 at 4:11 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

She's is just putting her internal monologue into ChatGPT. She knows she should stop, but she doesn't want to.

"I'm married so we can't" is token resistance at best.

"please help me politely message someone who is pursuing me. that I do find them attractive and they know but I'm married so I can't be doing the messaging and shouldn't be flirting"

Full blown *at minimum* emotional affair. Just so you know, admitted mutual attraction that you don't know about is definitely enough.

As for the dick pic mystery, I'll have to leave it to someone brighter than me. It's entirely possible there is something like the "nudify" websites but for dick pics.

Either she received a dick pic, or she wanted to receive a dick pic to a sufficient degree to open a browser in incognito, google "ai dick pic" and then upload an image of her colleague...

You tell me what's worse.

I would confront your wife, but I wouldn't reveal that you have snooped because she will simply turn it around on you.

You were *right* to snoop. You check for fire if you see smoke, and she was billowing smoke.

400mini,

Bigger’s confrontation plan really is as good as it gets.

I would add that with the evidence you have seen, the job also needs to go. Not sometime in the future, but now.

Brother, please take action ASAP. Your wife is on the slippery slope, trying not to go all the way down. Help her help herself and the marriage. If she has sex with him, you will be devastated. Bigger's advice above is spot on. The only things I will add is don't do the pick me dance, be firm, be strong. Bigger's approach is firm so if you like that you will be good. She needs to read the book Not Just Friends and establish much, much better boundaries. The good news is she is semi-trying now,but semi-failing too.

And married couples should not keep their phones locked from one another. The only reason to do that is to cheat or break the law or something nefarious. Address that issue too. She may get defensive, in fact she likely will. But you have all the evidence you need, don't let her squirm out of her behavior. Hopefully she will be open to the discussion and immediately remorseful but those things often take days or weeks to occur so be ready for a harsh response just in case.

And this guy needs some consequences. Talking to HR is one. A lawyer sending a note is another. A very firm verbal confrontation is another. If he is married, definitely inform his spouse ASAP. Be careful with an in person confrontation if you tend toward physical action like some of us do... You may lose control in the moment. That might feel good when it happens but then the police may get involved.

[This message edited by Trdd at 6:58 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

Your wife (right now) is lying by omission.

Here’s the thing. You can confront her she will deny it and you have no proof that anything physical has occurred.

Unfortunately the moment you confront your wife, she’s going to get defensive. She’s going to get angry. She’s going to accuse you of snooping and she’s going to most likely continue doing what she’s doing.

I’m going to suggest that you have a Plan B and maybe even a plan C in case you find that your wife is continuing to cheat and flirt. I would suggest that you can make any in all types of requests however if she gets angry and becomes resentful she’s going to further hide evidence of these interactions.

Therefore you need a Plan B for when you find out communication has continued and then you need a plan C for when you find out it has continued yet again

Nothing you say or do is going to stop her right now. She has to want to stop on her own however, if she recognizes that there are consequences to her behavior, it may make a difference and force her to acknowledge her lying, disrespect, etc.

Please read up on the 180. It is not meant to stop her from cheating, but it is meant to stop you from having to be exposed and witnessed the cheating.

I hope this helps you.

"The file was a .png, not a .jpeg, as you'd expect from a camera phone picture."

It sounds like an image created by artificial intelligence. PNG seems like a more professional file type—heavier, with more colors, etc. I think your wife is entering a kind of limbo; it's a bad sign. Have you noticed any changes in her?

I've been through something similar.

I recommend reading *Women's Infidelity I and II* by Michelle Langley. Don't interpret it as absolute truth; it's more of an essay, told in a way that seems like a real, professional case. Without taking it to the extreme, it can't reach its conclusion.

[This message edited by Littlepuppet at 8:25 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

One addition to my last post. Here is a way of getting into the conversation Bigger proposed.

Find a time when the kids won't bother you. 1st, say something like this: "I have a serious concern I need to share with you. After I give you my perspective, I really want to hear your honest perspective. Please let me finish sharing before you jump in, there will be plenty of time for you to share. Is that ok?"

This isn't magic but it does two things. One, it tells her this is serious so you don't blindside her with the facts right up front. It helps her mentally and emotionally prep. Second, it invites her perspective up front so she knows this isn't a one sided conversation, that you care about how she sees it. This tends to reduce defensiveness. I am not saying she won't be defensive, but it may help reduce it a little.

Once into Bigger's strategy, it will be important to not let her make this about your checking up on her. Now, you've invited her perspective so you can listen to her concerns about that if she goes there. But address that directly and tell her that issue is secondary to the danger she has put the marriage in. After you discuss the main event, you will be glad to discuss privacy and what married faithful partners should expect or not expect. And of course you should mention that you don't generally check up on her but her behavior and whatever data you first saw prompted you to do it. It gave you little choice. If you avoid telling your sources as Bigger suggested, you might avoid this conversation for the time being.

The point is, don't let her shift this conversation to your behavior. Her behavior is, if it continues without change, the guillotine above the marital neck. Your "snooping" only came as a result of her actions.

And remember, she flirted, which is bad, but she is also trying to stop this attention. Help her help herself before the red line is crossed. Tonight would be a good choice if the kids and life will allow a quiet conversation. Don't soften what you say to her. Be candid and create impact. The marriage is at risk right now unless action is taken, don't say anything less than that would be my advice.

[This message edited by Trdd at 8:31 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

The400Mini, never reveal your sources. All she will do is admit to the bare minimum of what she thinks you can prove and change up her means of communication.

Sit her down and tell her this: "I know that you're having an inappropriate relationship with another man. I want it to stop. If you want to pursue attention from other men, that's fine... you just won't be my wife anymore."

She's going to deny that anything is going on. That's when you tell her that this is her 1 opportunity to tell you everything and that if she leaves out a single detail the relationship is over. Don't tell her what you've observed about her locking down her apps and devices. Let her think that you're omniscient. If she thinks you know everything, she might reveal even more than what you know.

But if she sticks to her guns and insists that there's nothing going on, then you know (at the very least) that you're married to a liar.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 10:40 PM, Tuesday, December 16th]

The fact you do not know her passwords is a huge red flag. You are married and nothing should be hidden from each other. Walk up and ask her to unlock everything on her phone. When she asks why just tell her I'm curious to see what's in your phone, is that a problem? If she refuses then you know where you stand. If she refuses and then an hour later walks up and says okay here you go well that just probably means she erased everything she did not want you to see

Always trust your gut. If something feels off it probably is and based on what you have told us I think it's safe to assume she is at least having an EA but wouldn't be surprised if it was a PA

She has cheated on you, she has destroyed the trust in your relationship and until she can verbalize that she is 100% in the wrong and is willing to do anything to fix this reconciliation just is not possible

Is the other guy married? If so track down his wife and let her know what's going on, she has a right to know. I waited 5 months before doing so when I regret every minute of waiting

If she comes clean ask her to write up a complete timeline of every little detail. If she does then ask her when is this everything and if she says yes then ask her if she is willing to take a polygraph test. If she says yes then there's a chance she is being honest but if she says no or she pushes back then you can assume she did not write down everything

It seems pretty common for WS's to only give out what they think is enough information to placate the BS. But when other details are discovered the entire reconciliation process is reset to square one.

Just keep in mind, you only know what you have dug up. Only she knows everything and until you think you do, reconciliation probably will not work

When I had noticed my wife changed her phone password, I made sure I was extra attentive when she was opening her phone. Took a few tries, but I figured it out and was able to get in. You should be able to keep your eyes open and your mouth shut while you gather evidence. Keep it saved somewhere secure. Research ways to spy on a potentially unfaithful partner for tips.

Look at the screen in good light with the unlock number pad on it. In most cases youll see at least which numbers were used based on the fingerprints.

If its not clear, you can always wipe the screen, then circle back later and check again.

You won't have the order, but youll know what numbers it contains.

Next, stay close and witness it being unlocked. It may take a couple times of watching but youll start to see the pattern. Especially since you already know the numbers used.

Starts with top left, ends with bottom right, etc. Youll piece it together.

Once you have what you know to be the correct code, wait for a time where youll have extended access.

You can remove the faceID as long as you have the pass code. Google remove FaceID and youll find it.

It then will only require the passcode for apps that previously required FaceID.

Make sure you have your phone camera ready to document evidence. Take pictures of everything that you feel matters in this scenerio. Youll most likely only get one shot at this, so make sure you get what your after.

They will notice their FaceID has been turned off when they access the app again. But all kinds of weird things happen with updates and whatnot.

I agree with everyone else here, once it crosses into infidelity, it can't be undone. I would do everything you can to get ahead of this. Thats way worse than her finding out you were in her phone.

Once you have solid evidence, I would confront her about it. You dont have to lead with that, i wouldnt. but based on what you find it will help tailor questions to see if she lies about that situation. Watch her facial expressions, watch how long it takes to answer each question, Does she deny things you already know are true? All of those things speak volumes.

If all else fails, you'll have the evidence to fall back on.

I will caution you however, once you see things you can't unsee them. They will affect you alot more than you think. Only look at what you need to and get out. The more you absorb, the more your brain will attack you with the images, messages and details. That comes from experiencing this myself.

Good luck to you!

[This message edited by TheBetrayedHusband at 12:22 AM, Saturday, December 20th]

That’s so true about EA or PA. Once you cross that line you can never undo it. The dick image or OM’s face will be stuck with you for the rest of your life. Just pray he is not one of your friends otherwise the hurt is even worse.