SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The key is to make changes to yourself, for yourself. Honestly.

Don’t do it to affect a change in her. Doing that is a manipulation, and at the core of every manipulation is a lie. You’ll know it, and she’ll see it and she’ll know it, and she’ll know that you’re just playing a game of lies.

When you make a change for yourself, excepting things as they are honestly, that will have the biggest effect on her.

Let me repeat that, the thing that you do that is not meant to have an effect on her, but just on yourself we have the biggest effect on her.

Agree 100%. That's why I suggested reading up on the 180. I may not have worded that reply as well as I should have, but the purpose of the 180 is to make changes to yourself, for yourself.

Hope you’ll ponder this locally-penned proverb:

"Never light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm".

That’s what you’re doing. You have every right to set yourself on fire, but as another referenced, you must accept the consequences of your choice - you’re going to be severely burned, the longer you insist on incinerating yourself, the more it’s going to hurt.

You’ve laid your boundary: no divorce, no matter what. There’s another locally-defined noun: You are smoking "hopium". It’s the mythical substance that convinces a person if they simply hope & wish hard enough their adulterous spouse will change, they will. The hard-earned crowd-sourced wisdom gained by many suffering through infidelity, delivers the actual truth: adulterous people never change without motivation to do so. In very rare cases, that motivation comes from within the offender. In some cases, allowing the offender to experience some of the natural consequences of their choices becomes a motivator for internal character change. Anecdotally, most never change much.

Do you think your wife is motivated in any way to change? If so, what is it? And do you think true change of mind leads to any impact on choices & actions?

I have no reason or evidence to suggest my wife has been unfaithful for the past 25 years. And I do believe that. My concern is her inability or unwillingness to be honest and consistent regarding what happened for the decade before, from weeks before our wedding day to 12 years after, when I came upon a love letter from her boyfriend. She wants so badly for me to accept her "mistake" and move on. Her primary defense mechanism is denial, and I am plagued by an obsessive personality. I love her more than ever, but her inability to be honest about her past is a painful sore that never heals. I truly believe that to overcome infidelity and move on, it takes honesty and transparency, something I yearn for but will likely never realize.

I truly believe that to overcome infidelity and move on, it takes honesty and transparency, something I yearn for but will likely never realize.

It absolutely does. What confidence do you have your wife will CHANGE to be an honest & transparent person? She’s categorically not been that your entire marriage.

But you’ve decided you’re staying no matter what. She knows that. So why on earth would your wife do the MASSIVE amount of work to change into such a person? She absolutely knows you’re not going anywhere, regardless of any action or inaction she does. So I ask again, why *should* she change, IN HER MIND?

[This message edited by gr8ful at 1:01 AM, Monday, September 8th]

Pogre

Agree 100%.

I was agreeing with you 100% , sorry if not clear. 🙂

I love her more than ever, but her inability to be honest about her past is a painful sore that never heals.

Bullshit on the never healing part. You have agency and you have actions you can take to move forward to your own healing without her doing what you think she needs to take to help your healing.

Stop hiding behind her actions to give you an excuse for why you aren’t moving forward. It is all on you 100%. You control your actions 100%. Accept responsibility and take action.

low tide

You wrote;

I have no reason or evidence to suggest my wife has been unfaithful for the past 25 years. And I do believe that.

Lets look at the definition of unfaithful. From Meriam Webster;

a : not adhering to vows, allegiance, or duty : DISLOYAL

b : not faithful to marriage vows

c : INACCURATE, UNTRUSTWORTHY

While i hear is that you do not think your wife has been unfaithful for your marriage beyond twelve years into it. In looking at the definition it seems to me that your wife is unfaithful in every way. You will not be able to cajole or plead your wife in to being faithful. That is her path. What is yours?

With the utmost respect on what you are experiencing…… as others have mentioned….. your WW (wandering wife) has no reason to stop the lying and continued gaslighting.

She knows she is in control and that you will NEVER divorce her.

How is that working for you, your mental and emotional health? You deserve so much better. She broke your marriage vows. You are not bound to them anymore.

It is not a sickness, but a calculated decision to deceive and dishonor you. Over and over and over.

You’re getting great advice here so far. As someone who has lived long years with a liar, I just have a question for you:

Are you saying that she ONLY lies to you about the affair years ago? Can you really say she doesn’t have a habit of lying about other things, big and small, throughout your relationship?

In my experience, someone who lives a secret life, someone who guards their reality so they can do what they choose without interference or hassle, someone who is conflict avoidant, doesn’t ONLY lie about one thing.

Your wife definitely sounds conflict avoidant. Those personalities lie to avoid anything that harshes their vibe: disagreement with something they want to do or have done, anyone that might try to convince them to do things differently, sometimes they just lie about having done something you asked them to do because they didn’t and don’t want to deal with you.

Are you saying your wife is meticulously honest except about the affair?

Okay, I lied—I have another question:

You say that your wife loves you and is your best friend.

How do you EXPERIENCE her undying, true love? I mean what ACTIONS on her part demonstrate that to you? You obviously do a lot of things to try to make her happy (It’s impossible to MAKE another person happy, BTW.). What does your wife DO to make you happy?

Does she know and anticipate what will make you happy?

Does she understand and try to meet your needs?

Does she put your happiness and comfort on the same level as her own?

Does she compromise when you disagree?

Any of that? Sometimes, when we’re in a relationship with someone we love, we assume that their love is equal and that they are experiencing the same level of caring and devotion. It’s why infidelity can destroy us so much—we thought they loved us like we loved them.

Okay, I’ll stop. Keep reading and keep thinking. It’s really hard to adjust to your world and marriage being completely different than you thought. It’s really devastating to discover that you don’t know your partner, that they are maybe not at all the person that you thought they were.

One step at a time.

It sounds like you are aware that it’s also highly conceivable that your wife may simply not remember details clearly from so long ago, rather than be deliberately lying. You say you have an obsessive personality. Might this be a case of sleeping dogs never being allowed to actually rest for 30 years, hence getting more and more jumbled and confused?

Have you two tried MC?

I appreciate all your feedback, and indeed, it has prompted me to think. Honestly, I'm at a loss. I want so badly to move ahead with our lives, but I'm plagued with visions of her infidelity, albeit decades ago, and her assurances that I now know the truth about everything. I believe that I have visions because my mind is trying to gain a sense of closure so I can accept a painful reality. And, I know that she is still withholding aspects of her over a decade-long infidelity with him in an effort to protect me and to protect herself. Beyond this issue, albeit huge, our lives are wonderful. But as I have said, it's a proverbial sore that simply doesn't heal and eats away at my being all the time. I feel like it's literally killing me. I remain hopeful that by asserting my need for the truth, I will eventually have it. At the very least, if I'm being haunted by what she is NOT telling me, she should be pondering her responsibility today to be honest and transparent about the past and whatever happens in our lives moving forward. You have provided a place for me to turn. And for that I am grateful. You are also sharing your experiences, and for that, too, I am thankful.

I’m really sorry to hear how painful your recurrent flashback episodes are. What has your psychiatrist been treating you for? If not ptsd, why not? This feels like it is less an issue for your wife to solve and more to do with your nervous system and psyche, and could be treated whether through emdr, rewind or NET therapy as well as some of cognitive and possibly exposure therapy if it’s still obsessive so many years later. I say this because the longer you feel it is up to your wife to heal you, the less empowered you are in healing yourself. I’m a bit surprised that your psychiatric treatment has been so longstanding but yet seemingly ineffective. I’m thinking you are far better off seeing a therapist who can take a holistic approach to your issues rather than the pathological approach so often dictating psychiatry.

Lowtide, we are three pages in. You are new here. You have been getting bombarded with a lot of information. When I first started on here 4 years ago, I sometimes felt like I was being attacked and pressured to go against my will. It too me quite a while, and a great IC who helped me through EMDR treatment for me to realize that everyone on here has plentiful experience in this situation and while it may seem like they are attacking your choice to fight for your wife, they also know first hand what you are dealing with. I see a lot of my previous codependency in you. Once I learned how valuable I was and built myself worth back up, learned that my wife’s infidelity was a her problem that had nothing to do with me, it really changed my thought process. I learned that marriage is a 50/50 partnership and required equal work from both to make the relationship work. Once my rose colored glasses came off and came to terms that my wife was never going to be able to initiate change, I was able to choose a path forward that actually benefitted me, got me out of emotional abuse, and set me on a path to happiness. Just wanted you to know we are here to help and provide support, but we won’t candy coat things for you. This is a tough time for you and we want to support the growth of your inner strength.

Very well said copingmybest.

I appreciate the empathy and compassion, as well as the firm guidance, I have received here. I understand that there is no one approach that will help everyone. What I'm most appreciative of is the honesty and intellect that this group bestows. I am well aware of my resistance, and I'm learning what I need to know versus what's nice to know. I truly believe that what is preventing me from having closure and moving ahead with our lives is my wife's unwillingness to be honest today. I know that there are aspects of her dark past that she is withholding, and by not trusting her, I remain stuck and in the deepest, unimaginable emotional pain. I am begging her daily to please share everything with me, and she assures me that she has. The problem I have is that she assured me 25 years ago, when I learned of her infidelity, that I knew everything—only to learn in the last 25 years that whenever the topic comes up, there is a different story. Is this common among us? —Trickled to Death

[This message edited by low tide at 2:08 PM, Monday, September 8th]

I’m so sorry you are struggling.

Something I picked up on in your posts are

1) your WW infidelity was decades ago.
2) you are sure you don’t have the truth.
3) you struggle with rumination.
4) you have OCD.

Some of my H’s infidelity’s were decades ago, I still don’t think I have all the truth, I struggle with rumination and I too was diagnosed with slight OCD.

Because the infidelity was so long ago who is to say she’s not telling the truth?, what if ‘I can’t remember is not a good enough answer for you and as to please you she sort of makes a round about version of what happened?. My H admitted in therapy that he could not remember things and because I’m like a dog with a bone he would make something up to get out of the corner I’d backed him in to. I’m not saying your W has done this but it’s a possibility.

You’re sure you don’t have the truth?, me too. Guess what, I don’t think you will ever think you do, there’s only one thing to do…..let it go. I wanted every single detail possible, how many this?, how many times that?, where, when, what, who, why, how long did it last?, I even got my H to take me to the every single place he went and demonstrate on me exactly what he did and timed everything with a stop watch. The extra fine details I wanted are that extra fine I will not put any of it on here because I don’t want to trigger anyone. Sometimes along the way in our journey so far my spidey senses have started tingling and I was almost certain he was lying, then the OCD kicks in and the crazy comes out to play. I got to the point where I thought ‘well Bruce this is silly, it doesn’t change anything’. We know enough of the facts. They lied, they cheated. To find peace we must learn to accept what we’re given, I’m still learning…you are welcome to join me if you like I’m sure we can get there.

Rumination is horrible, it’s mental torture. The only advice I have is distraction.

From your posts you seem like you want to stay with your wife, in this case my advice is this…..I saw this online somewhere.
This hourglass ⏳ represents your life, the sand in the bottom is your past, it’s gone, everything there has been and done and gone. The sand in the top is your future, it’s what is yet to come, nobody knows what will happen here BUT, why would you waste your sand at the top thinking about what happened in the sand at the bottom?.

Bruce123. Thank you so much. I read and reread your post—among others. Your hourglass analogy is interesting. My only concern is that it implies that we don't have any control over the sand. I suppose I want to open the hourglass and examine it, to understand it. I'm still stuck wondering what the grains of sand may have been—if that makes any sense. Why are her stories so grossly inconsistent?

I truly believe that what is preventing me from having closure and moving ahead with our lives is my wife's unwillingness to be honest today.

This is the opposite of taking responsibility for yourself, and it's an example of co-dependence - you have placed responsibility for your state of mind and body on your W's shoulders.

Are you relying on psychiatrists for OCD meds? That makes sense. Much of what has been said in this thread is basically wisdom we've received from therapists or books by therapists. If the ideas are new to you, you've received only part of the help you can use. Have you considered finding a good IC?

SI provides a type of peer counseling. It can be very helpful, as you have noted. IC is a different type of counseling. The 2 complement each other. Just consider the difference between posting and waiting for people to see your post, think about a response, and responding compared to being with an IC - make sure it's human, not AI - and being able to respond immediately.

Low tide.

We don’t have control of the sand, we only have control of ourselves, most of the things that happen in life we have no control over.
Your W tells you what she can remember, weather she is lying or not, you can’t force her to tell you what you want to hear, you can only decide what to do with the information provided.

You say you want to stay, she says she’s told you everything, you’re decades past DD, you want to examine the past, why? Again why? Why take the hourglass apart and waste the rest of your sand examining the sand that has passed.

Your W can’t fix you or tell you anything that is going to make you feel better. You have to work out what is best for you, how are you going to make yourself better.

Have you considered IC or MC?

Bruce123. Thank you for your directness. Today, I embraced the hourglass analogy, and whenever I experienced a trigger, I thought of the sand flowing. You are indeed correct. I can't change the past, and I only have control of the present. I'm working on this with the help and support of all of you. Thank you from the bottom of my heart.