Confronting perceived biases (A post to avoid thread jacking )
Context: moving over a discussion with HikingOut to here so not to thread jack.
This is a very narrow and inaccurate depiction, and is at the heart as to why several people have said to you that you believe people who r are softer, and the way you describe it does lend itself to believe you do have a stance in what is strong and what is weak.
Well, I clearly disagree with this assessment and believe I could write extensively to explain why.
Firstly, it seems evident that individuals who are more forgiving and empathetic are generally more inclined to engage in reconciliation. While this might seem self-evident, consider this circumstantial evidence:
Empathy is generally observed to be higher in females than males. Interestingly, data on infidelity and divorce suggests that although men are statistically more likely to engage in infidelity, they are also more likely to divorce because of it. It seems unlikely that this is a mere coincidence; women's generally higher empathy levels might indeed correlate with a greater capacity for forgiveness or a stronger motivation to work through marital transgressions. Do you not consider this a relevant factor?
Similarly, reconciliation appears to be significantly more prevalent among religious individuals. Given that many religions emphasize forgiveness as a core virtue, it seems plausible that this religious inclination influences the outcome of infidelity.
I could elaborate on this point at length, but to me, it seems intuitive that there's a connection between an individual's empathetic nature, the value they place on forgiveness, and their openness to reconciliation. To suggest otherwise feels akin to denying a correlation between someone's proneness to anger and their potential for violence. While not every short-tempered person is violent, a clear correlation exists.
Now before anyone goes here, I'm aware correlation doesn't necessarily mean causation however circumstantially we have buckets of evidence in this case that it does.
Secondly, I agree that both sets of characteristics can be defined as strengths. I'm unsure why you believe I'm asserting one is preferable to the other. Perhaps there's a general unconscious bias surrounding the terms used, where "logical" and "principled" are often perceived as strong, while "empathetic" and "forgiving" are seen as soft. However, this is a general societal interpretation, and I concur that it takes considerable strength to be both forgiving and empathetic. Often strength I personally lack.
Truthfully, I think many people who R are independent thinkers
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What leads you to this conclusion? I'm not necessarily saying you're wrong, but I don't immediately see the logical connection.
Highly Codependent people have a hard time reconciling a lot of times because in order to do it the codependency has to shift more towards independence.
Or perhaps nothing shifts at all, which I suspect might be the more common scenario.
What you've described is required for successful, by the book R perhaps. We can't know answer to this but what does your gut tell you the percentage of victims of infidelity that truly R and do the work required Vs those who simply stay together? I suspect far more stay together. I'm not wedded to that just seems to be the case from accounts I've followed.
I would agree highly codependent people may be more likely to rug sweep and stay married, but likely remain somewhat unhealed and unhappy.
Agreed. I'm falling into the whole staying together Vs reconciliation trap again aren't I?
My husband is not at all the codependent type. He is also not particularly empathetic or forgiving. He is very matter of fact and subscribes greatly to stoicism. I just think he has ultimately different values than you do. I would classify him as highly logical and principled. Despite his ws status- because he demonstrates that in so many ways in his life.
While I can't comment on your husband specifically, your assessment likely holds true. It's entirely possible for him to choose reconciliation even if it seems at odds with his core characteristics and principles. My point is that, on average, someone with his described traits is likely to find the process of reconciliation more challenging and therefore might be less inclined to pursue it / successful with should they do so.
All the bs on this site that did reconcile that I can recollect, took charge, required a lot more, and was willing to lose the marriage if those requirements were not met.
"All" of them? That's a very broad statement. Without naming specific individuals, it's quite clear to me that many members here have reconciled without necessarily adhering to all of those conditions. While I can't provide exact percentages, my observation suggests a roughly 50/50 split in terms of betrayed spouses firmly setting demands versus those who adopt a more accepting approach.
And as for divorce, I think many of the bs who did that are more the forgiving, empathetic type, but left due to their ws’s overall issues before or after the infidelity.
I completely agree with this point, and I don't believe it contradicts my earlier statements. The nature and behavior of the wayward spouse will significantly influence the outcome, regardless of the betrayed spouse's personality. My focus was on the betrayed spouse's inherent inclination or desire to pursue reconciliation in general. Sometimes, even if they wish to reconcile, the actions or character of their partner might make it impossible.
And a heck of a lot of bs’s here would have a mixture of these two personalities you just wrote about.
Agreed. Of course, these six traits I've mentioned are merely illustrative examples. Human personality is an intricate blend of countless characteristics, resulting in a vast spectrum of individual responses when faced with infidelity. These specific traits simply serve to highlight some clear distinctions in potential outcomes.
Ultimately, my core point is that it would be surprising if a detailed character analysis of individuals who have experienced infidelity didn't reveal a strong correlation between their inherent personality traits and their chosen path forward. While the characteristics of the wayward partner undoubtedly play a significant role, for someone who strongly embodies either the "empathetic/forgiving" or the "logical/principled" set of traits, their inherent disposition will likely heavily influence whether reconciliation or divorce becomes their eventual outcome, almost irrespective of the specific circumstances of the betrayal or the qualities of the betrayer
At this point I could revisit the familiar debate about whether reconciliation or divorce generally requires more strength, but I feel I've covered that ground quite a bit previously.
It's clear that compelling arguments can be made for either side, and I don't believe there's a definitive answer that applies universally.
Personally, for me, reconciliation would demand more strength because it would require a compromise of my core principles, which would be deeply unsettling. It's simply something I wouldn't be able to do.
However, speaking more broadly, two of the most common human fears are the fear of being alone and the fear of change. Divorce inherently forces an individual to confront these fears, while reconciliation does not. Therefore, although the answer varies depending on individual circumstances, I think a general tendency can be observed here.
1 comment posted: Thursday, May 29th, 2025
The Dilemma of Truth and Deception in Relationships: A Reflection on a Viral Affair Story
Inspired by a viral post on another relationship advice forum, I’m eager to hear the thoughts of users from this site, especially since it features more expert opinions backed by years of experience.
The viral post described a wife who had a brief affair as a newlywed during COVID while her partner was stuck in another country due to quarantine regulations. She revealed that she had kept this secret for some time, and the guilt was consuming her. Since then, they have had children, and she characterized her partner as the perfect husband and father. She mentioned that she has poured her energy into trying to make amends (without his knowledge) by being the best wife he could imagine. However, she expressed uncertainty about whether she could bring herself to confess, fearing it would shatter their relationship.
This is not an uncommon scenario; we’ve encountered similar stories before.
What particularly shocked me was that most commenters advised her to keep the secret, suggesting that she live with her guilt and continue being the best wife possible. They argued that her ongoing guilt was her punishment and burden to bear and that revealing the truth would only cause pain for her partner and ease her own suffering.
While it wasn’t a unanimous sentiment, I’d estimate that the opinions leaned approximately 60/40 in favor of keeping the secret.
This brings me to my questions, which are threefold:
- Do members of this site generally advocate for admitting the truth in such situations?
- Why do we observe such differing advice from those who may lack experience with infidelity?
- Does the pro-lie argument hold any validity in this context?
In my personal opinion, what she is currently experiencing resembles a sham marriage that is detrimental to everyone involved. It is harmful to her because she is not experiencing true love; the affection she feels is built on the lie of her supposed faithfulness. She is participating in a relationship where, should her partner learn the truth, he may choose to leave her or even come to resent her.
How can she find satisfaction knowing that her partner loves an illusion rather than the true her? Additionally, this situation is detrimental for him as well; he has had his agency stripped away. He has not been able to make informed decisions in his romantic life and may never truly know what it feels like to have a faithful partner.
30 comments posted: Monday, April 28th, 2025
Reflecting on Our Time in SI - Which Case Has Impacted You Most?
As we've spent time in SI, we've undoubtedly encountered a multitude of different cases and discussions. I've been wondering which particular story has resonated with you most deeply and for what reasons. What insights or lessons have you taken away from it?
To get the ball rolling, I'll share the case that has consistently stayed with me: the story of the user 'waitedwaytoolong'. For me, this case is truly unsettling and remains a vivid, almost nightmarish example.
To briefly outline the situation from my perspective, 'waitedwaytoolong' (WTL) discovered that his wife had engaged in a three-week-long physical affair with a contractor working on their home. Reportedly, prior to this incident, their marriage was stable and both partners considered it happy. The affair was brought to light by another contractor who was aware of what was happening, which subsequently led WTL to hire a private investigator to confirm his suspicions.
In hindsight, and as WTL himself reportedly acknowledged, they attempted to "rug-sweep" the affair for five years as he desperately tried to forgive his wife and move forward. However, he was never truly able to overcome the disgust he felt. This, combined with the fact that the affair seemed to have changed his wife into a more passive partner, ultimately led to a breaking point and a divorce that came as a shock to his wife.
What made this case particularly impactful for me was the extremely graphic nature of the sexual encounters described – the specific acts performed and the element of humiliation involved were some of the most disturbing I've encountered from a source I considered reliable. It resonated deeply because the acts detailed in the affair, in my personal experience, are often reserved for intimate and special occasions within a relationship. The thought of his wife engaging in these acts so frequently and casually with a virtual stranger over such a short period is truly haunting.
Ultimately, the 'waitedwaytoolong' case has stayed with me so profoundly because it highlighted several of the most frightening aspects of infidelity. Firstly, it demonstrated how betrayal can seemingly arise out of nowhere, regardless of the perceived strength or happiness of a marriage. Secondly, it underscored the stark reality that the capacity for forgiveness and the ability to truly move past such a transgression can be deeply ingrained in one's character. Finally, while the dangers of rug-sweeping are apparent in many infidelity cases, this one particularly emphasized the intense desire to forgive someone you deeply love, juxtaposed with the potential impossibility of truly doing so on a fundamental level.
16 comments posted: Friday, April 11th, 2025
The Paradox of Forgiveness: Understanding Reconciliation After Betrayal
I've come across an interesting thought and would love to hear your insights on it.
Recently, I was discussing reconciliation with someone who had gone down that path after experiencing betrayal. I often find the concept of forgiveness fascinating, as I personally struggle to understand how one could forgive and accept such a significant betrayal. For me it's entirely at odds with my principles. Generally speaking, though no one is perfect, I can say I live my life in line with these principles. While I can see the benefits if one possesses certain character traits, I'm ultimately unsure if I could ever comprehend the desire to forgive something so cruel.
During our conversation, the person said, "I always thought cheating was a deal breaker for me, but..." This notion is not new; many of us have heard similar sentiments before. However, it struck me that individuals who reconcile after betrayal—despite initially asserting that it would be a deal breaker—might actually be the best candidates for reconciliation.
They are, in a way, betraying their own principles just as the wayward spouse did. I’m not equating the two acts in a moral sense, but the decision-making process has parallels. Typically, most cheaters never envision themselves capable of infidelity; they hold that principle firmly. Yet something occurs that warps their understanding, leading them to act against it. This mirrors the reconciler’s journey, who once thought they would never accept cheating. Once faced with the reality of betrayal, they find themselves torn and unwilling to let go.
This fascinating symmetry, perhaps not a new concept but I thought it was interesting.
29 comments posted: Thursday, February 27th, 2025
Moving forward, request for some experienced insight and a bit of ramble
Hi all,
I'm looking for a little advice. First, I want to share that it has been a long time since I experienced betrayal from my ex. The first three years were challenging, but I eventually got through it. I followed the typical suggestions: I picked up hobbies, got in great shape, and leaned on my friends and family. I even ran 100 miles in a month, participated in a charity kickboxing fight, and hammered dating apps—all the clichéd activities a man desperate to rebuild his ego might try. I also turned to self-help books, which proved to be a turning point for me.
Over the next three years, I felt I had healed and moved on. I found a long-term partner, my career flourished, and life was good. However, over the last twelve months, I've found myself dwelling on the past again. While the anger has faded, the feelings surrounding the betrayal linger. I think this introspection is tied to my recent efforts to address the remortgage and transfer of equity to remove my ex from our property. Yes, I know it took me six years to get to this point. Word of warning: don’t buy a property that’s beyond your financial means.
Going through this process led me to read about infidelity. Perhaps it was an attempt to understand what I went through—this is how my mind works—or maybe it was a form of "pain shopping." I suspect this need to delve into the subject stems from a lack of closure. In my case, all I received was denial of infidelity, followed by the breakup, and the truth came out very publicly through friends. I never had a face-to-face admission or an apology; the last communication from her was denial and gaslighting. Regardless, I realize that closure isn't a feasible option for me, and I don't want to pursue that further.
The remortgage completed last month, though it took around eight all in. Thanks to many complicating factors. I expected to feel as if a terrible chapter of my life had closed, but instead, I felt nothing.
As I continued to read about infidelity and hear about others' experiences, I found myself engaged in the topic from a theoretical perspective. Given my past betrayal, I'm not sure if this interest is healthy; it has almost morphed into a hobby. I genuinely believe I have valid insights to contribute, which led me to engage in forums like this one. However, I worry about whether this is truly a healthy pursuit or if it's too close to the bone to be considered a hobby.
Now, to the point at hand: this year, I plan to propose to my partner. I have never felt so romantically fulfilled. We are best friends, we share strong moral alignment, and our sex life is fantastic. As we approach my intended proposal date, I've started to experience a few irrational worries. I know these concerns are baseless, given our relationship—there are no red flags whatsoever.
But haven't we all read stories where everything seemed until along came a spider...
Do you think it would be unreasonable at some point, post-engagement and before marriage, to sit her down and say something like: "I have no doubts about you at all, but my past has left me somewhat damaged. Ahead of marrying you, I’d like to exchange phones and take a deep dive to make sure nothing inappropriate has gone on through our relationship. Just to silence these irrational thoughts"?
Is this a fair request, considering it stems from unfounded fears, or would you suggest I simply try to move past these thoughts?
Thank you for your thoughts.
36 comments posted: Friday, February 21st, 2025
Touching Base On Views of Hall Passes and Revenge Affairs
Hi everyone,
I’d like to open a conversation about how the community's views have evolved regarding hall passes and revenge affairs.
During my research, I noticed that much of the content surrounding these topics, despite being a few years old, skews heavily negative. I struggled to find anyone who would publicly advocate for these actions.
Let’s start with revenge affairs. I understand the counterarguments here; it’s true that situations like these are rarely straightforward, and the saying "two wrongs don't make a right" does hold some validity. However, I can appreciate the perspective that engaging in a revenge affair might serve to level the playing field. While many manage to navigate the feelings of resentment through therapy or other healthy outlets, I recognize that some individuals may find it difficult to move past the hurt caused by a partner’s infidelity. In such cases, revenge affairs might feel like a means of regaining a sense of autonomy or justice.
Furthermore, it seems essential for individuals involved in infidelity to grasp the full impact of their actions. I argue that true reconciliation is nearly impossible without both partners understanding the nuances of that betrayal. It feels somewhat hollow to seek forgiveness without considering how one would feel in the position of the harmed partner.
This brings me to the often-debated notion that a cheater cannot justifiably divorce a partner who has also cheated. While I recognize that individuals are entitled to their own boundaries, I must contend that this notion is, at its core, hypocritical. If both parties have agreed to certain boundaries and one partner breaches them, it's inconsistent to condemn the other for doing the same. Hypocrisy, in my view, is unavoidable in that scenario.
Is it ideal to find oneself in such complicated circumstances? Certainly not. But neither is the original act of betrayal.
My character is such I could never personally reconcile either way. I'm far to principled and know I would never respect myself for reconciling with a cheater, perhaps a character flaw on my behalf. That being said, if due to family or financial constraints it was inconceivable to divorce. I feel I could only let go of the resentment if they forgave me of cheating also.
Now, regarding hall passes, I genuinely struggle to identify a moral counterpoint. In this case, consent has been actively given, which is a clear distinction from the betrayal that comes with cheating, where consent is absent.
I realize that I am combining two quite different subjects, so I welcome any differing opinions on each.
Please note, my intention here is purely academic; I'm not presenting evidence on the success rates of relationships that have experienced revenge affairs, nor am I suggesting that engaging in them will improve a relationship. However, from a moral and logical standpoint, it seems that the cheater has little ground to stand on when it comes to expressing outrage about their partner's potential actions in response.
115 comments posted: Friday, February 7th, 2025
