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I showed her the email and she got angry and wouldn’t speak to me for 3 days.

This alone should have had you bee-line to a divorce attorney.

My XWW was the same - absolutely furious that she got caught.

No, not concerned about betraying and deeply hurting her husband, her children, and destroying her marriage and family.

She was enraged that she got caught and because of that, I became this monster in her delusional mind.

Your wife has done the same to you - turned you into the “ogre” in her fantasy world where her adultery partner is the knight-in-shining-armor and she is the princess that he rescued.

She has maintained the fantasy and you are still the ogre.

Get yourself the hell out of her fantasy world.

ETA: I divorced my XWW more than eight years ago and to this day she STILL needs to see me as this horrible person in her mind even though I do all possible to have nothing to do with her. We still have one minor child and that is the only connection. Also to this day, she has still never apologized to our children nor has even acknowledged that what she did hurt them tremendously. My point, people like this simply never change.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 7:41 PM, July 10th (Saturday)]

Title of post should read “12 Rugsweeping Blameshifting Years Later”

Thanks for the advice and some answers to a few questions:

Don’t enjoy being a martyr and certainly not making this up for Reddit as some have suggested.

No question I have buyer’s remorse. Funny thing is when I pulled up all the emails, texts, screenshots I saved, I had forgotten a lot of it.

OM got married a few years back to the person he started dating while having affair with WW. I did email and call her several times, she basically blew it off because they were just dating at the time.

She doesn’t work there anymore, it’s a retail store and she always brings one of our children with her, so I think she does it more to say “I”m going to xxxx” then anything more ( at this point)

Yes, I’m the breadwinner. Always made a very good living.

I realize it is and was my decision to stay or go. Seeing it typed out does make it disgusting and horrible. And also weak on my part, but here I am.

ChamomileTea, you’re pretty much spot on.

I plan on “ stirring up the hornet’s nest” and confronting WW. Tired of the anger, and the pain. And the fear. Because I still love her and I believe the end is D. I also hate her for what she did and what she took from me.

A total mess. Should have been fanatical about a real R when it all came out.

Conflict is only bad when it's not constructive. So, when you think about it, conflict is opportunity, right? Sometimes it's ugly, but it's how the sausage gets made. The bottom line is that you're not happy and that this kind of wounding can become a cancer on your marriage and your life, keeping you from achieving the kind of emotional intimacy you'd like to have in your coming retirement years.

Do remember though that while she is 100% responsible for the cheating, you have allowed her to think your reconciliation was successful. IOW, you've been holding back. And while that's understandable to some degree because conflict really IS hard, you weren't forthcoming about how you were really feeling. Try to own it rather than defend it. That will get the focus shifted back to where you need it much, much quicker. Remember too that real healing is something we have to accomplish for ourselves. WS's can help by creating a healing environment, but just like our bones must knit together when broken, we have to dig deep, find out what's in our way that's preventing us from cleaning that slate, and get it addressed.

Sometimes it's going to turn out that the WS never really deserved our forgiveness and that they need to get back to work remediating poor character. And that's going to be on them. But sometimes, the WS has already done the work and yet we find ourselves still offended and inconsolable. THAT is a tougher nut to crack, but I've found quite a bit of help in meditating on the Buddhist connection between suffering and ego. This ends up being a weird place to look for solace, but what I found is that even while I found my self-esteem to be at its lowest, my ego was still in the mix. My constant inner wail of "How could he do this to ME??" tells the tale. Because my "ME" was in big capital letters with a fancy font. And that's natural, of course. But the reality is that my WH's adultery was about HIM. It had nothing to do with me. He cheated for his own reasons and the fact that I wasn't even a consideration was just another invitation for my ego to reassert its complaint. "How could he not see ME??"

Anyway, to make a long story shorter, eventually I was able to apply some context to my injuries. I'm NOT the only one who ever got cheated on. I'm NOT above the statistics to such a degree where it couldn't possibly happen to me. Cosmic forces weren't out to torture me. I hadn't been neglected or forgotten by God. All the catastrophizing I had done hadn't changed what happened and never would change what had happened. You see how that works, right? It takes time, but eventually, I was able to get my enormous, fancy-fonted "ME" down to normal size where the rest of the Earthlings live. It's the primal nature of the hurt which makes it so hard to heal because it butts into our fear of abandonment.. and that's hardwired in from birth.

So yeah... I think you've made a good decision. Conflict can be your friend, particularly when you have some goals in mind for what you need to accomplish with it. It might be a rocky road for awhile. But if the end result is healing and two people heading into retirement with a high degree of emotional intimacy, I think it will be worth the struggle. Keep reading and questioning everything you thought you knew as you go along. I was so shocked by how much my POV changed and really how much control I actually had over it all.

Tired of the anger, and the pain. And the fear. Because I still love her and I believe the end is D. I also hate her for what she did and what she took from me.

You can't change the past. And, the truth is, you chose to stay this last decade plus. I'm sure that it is not all bad, but given the chance for a do-over.....

You can start your do-over now. Actually, it would be a do-now, but what better time than immediately? I would hope that if nothing else of these last 12 years, is that you've gotten stronger. Use that strength right now, and demand the changes that you NEED for this marriage to continue. And just as your wife has full autonomy in her decision to stay or go, you have those same options. Yes, divorce is costly. Yes, you lose full-time access to your children. Yes, it seems unfair that you have even been put in this situation to begin with, but the sooner that you take ownership of your choices to stay and rugsweep, the sooner that you can make changes.

Not many people who have been betrayed like this can look at themselves in the mirror and say that they handled things perfectly. But we learn, grow, and make better choices for ourselves in the future. That is how we 'right' our 'wrongs'.

Initiated conversation with my W yesterday. Told her I had been thinking a lot of the A lately and would like some clarity. She started crying and getting angry immediately. Kept asking why I would bring it up after so long, nothing was going on, I must be crazy, etc.

Asked her why she kept going to former work where she met AP. She said she has always gone there and it’s just convenient. Nothing happens, never even sees him. And she was sure to mention that she always brings our daughter with her (that part is true). Told her that it was very hurtful and a trigger and she blew it off.

Then I asked her why she had been messaging the OM 2 years after we supposedly reconciled and she had stopped the A. She said none of that ever happened. So I read the message to her verbatim, how she told him she had left me months ago and specifically referenced a dinner out at our favorite restaurant that she was going to with good friends. In reality my WW and I went to the restaurant ourselves. I even had the pic of the evening on my phone from 10 years ago and it was my birthday! That one put her into a complete meltdown.

I told her I couldn’t do the fantasy world anymore and if she wanted to fix this now was time to come clean. She insists that the same nonsensical story is the truth and that I must be crazy.

So,

I packed a bag and left. Had a business trip planned for today and will be away for a few days. It actually felt liberating.

I can’t help but to keep re-reading the old texts, messages, screenshots, the notes I made back then (cloud storage is wonderful!) and thinking I really have been in a fantasy world myself for the past 12 years.

My personal opinion is that she hasn’t been having a PA with this POS for a decade. I could of course be wrong again, I think she enjoys going to see if she can see him and I can’t figure out the daughter angle. Again, I could be totally wrong but it doesn’t feel like that this time. I knew last time, even when everyone told me I was crazy.

Don’t see how this ends in R. She will NOT tell the truth.

You cannot fix bad people, it is really that simple.

Many here endless contort themselves to avoid this axiom, in the end the truth is always there and surfaces.

Do not back down. You are not crazy. She has successfully gaslighted you for years so she has no reason to believe it won't work this time. Every other time she has a tantrum, you cave. Don't cave this time no matter what.

If she won't stop lying you have absolutely nothing to work with. You KNOW this.

Seriously, don't back down. Get in counseling for yourself. See a lawyer and let her know that no truth means you have to move forward to heal yourself.

You can't change who she is but you can and should hold to your boundaries for your own healing and mental health.

CJD,

You wrote, My personal opinion is that she hasn’t been having a PA with this POS for a decade. I could of course be wrong again, I think she enjoys going to see if she can see him and I can’t figure out the daughter angle. Again, I could be totally wrong but it doesn’t feel like that this time. I knew last time, even when everyone told me I was crazy.

The daughter angle could be that she saw the OM as her soulmate and by bringing her child with her she creates the ideal family. My W also brought my son to the workplace of OM1.1 and OM1.2.

The fantasy of the perfect OM dies hard, for my W it's been like 35 years since she saw OM1.2, but in spite of his stealing money from a woman with dementia her comment is that "that's not the OM1.2 I know".

W also had an instantaneous emotional breakdown in a mall when she thought I said I see OM1.2

Did your sex life with your WW ever recover, are you now her best kisser ever?

It actually felt liberating.

Revisit this every day when you look in the mirror. Relive this feeling of triumph. It is true. You just got a glimpse of self dignity and respect, so let it captivate you. You can stand on your own hind feet and respect yourself.

Remember how great that felt!

Survrus,

Sex itself is ok, I can’t kiss her without thinking about the email/OM. So we don’t kiss much, maybe a little after a cocktail or glass of wine (or two or three) but it’s a huge trigger.

And in a way it self perpetuates. I can’t kiss her because i think of this scumbag so I’m not the best kisser with her and I can’t/don’t want to be, if that makes sense.

Always wondered about the daughter angle and you’re probably right in the beginning, but she’s an adult now so I don’t understand why she keeps doing it. Also don’t want to involve her anymore than she already is. “Hi daughter, did your mom whore around with Xxxxx at the store?.”

This is heart breaking to me that you’ve been treated like this. Find your righteous anger, borrow my bitch boots, and in the words of Dan Savage, “DTMFA”. (Dump the mother fucker already).

Dude. She straight up sucks. Being alone is better.

This is heart breaking to me that you’ve been treated like this. Find your righteous anger, borrow my bitch boots, and in the words of Dan Savage, “DTMFA”. (Dump the mother fucker already).

Dude. She straight up sucks. Being alone is better.

ETA- she’s not right in the head, and sounds evil. Run.

Because I still love her

What exactly do you love about her?

[This message edited by Marz at 7:59 AM, July 17th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by Marz at 1:59 PM, Saturday, July 17th]

She will NOT tell the truth.

You know the truth.

[This message edited by Marz at 8:01 AM, July 17th (Saturday)]

[This message edited by Marz at 2:01 PM, Saturday, July 17th]

Cjd

Have you heard from her since you’ve been gone?

This is my advice.

Keep pressing. You know this is headed for D if she doesn’t change who she is so you don’t have much to lose.

Listen I know there will be some financial ramifications from D. Maybe talk to a lawyer and firm those up.

Then tell your wife something like this

Its clear to me that this man has been in your heart more than I have ever been for most of our marriage since the day you met him.

Then stop talking to her about it. Just stop. You need to stand up for yourself finally. You need to be able to look in the mirror and respect the man you see looking at you.

If she finally does some hard work on this over the next months and even years, maybe there’s a chance you and she can finally have a real relationship. But don’t wait around to find out. That would only continue to keep uou in limbo.

Keep posting

I wish you well.

It’s called sunk costs. You have time and money invested in this “marriage”. Looking from the outside it looks like a bad business deal that you have had trouble unloading. You keep going back to the affair hoping it wasn’t as bad as you thought. Einstein is supposed to have said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over hoping for a different outcome. On top of that you have very sociopathic behavior in the constant lying. I am not going to question why you stayed. We often put up with crap from all sorts of people. The peace makers are the ones who keep the world from going completely down the drain. I give you credit for trying but aren’t you exhausted by now? Get some good therapy. You have paid your dues.

-Stevesn

She did text me and ask something random about the house, then went back into the “ I already told you everything, Why are you bringing it up, I don’t even remember sending that message”

I just stopped replying.

Is there anyway to look at hidden Facebook friends and check relationship statuses? I never had a FB until recently for work and we are not “friends” on FB. She has friends and status hidden.

-Cooley2here

This is definitely a good example of the sunk cost fallacy.

CD: It WILL NEVER GET BETTER. It will always be there, hanging on, infiltrating your mind, messing with your perspective and having an affect on your mindset. Go talk to a lawyer, make a clean break, your kids and your soul will thank you.

Is there anyway to look at hidden Facebook friends and check relationship statuses? I never had a FB until recently for work and we are not “friends” on FB. She has friends and status hidden.

This is another leftover from the rugsweep. If appropriate boundaries had been established at that time, keeping hidden friends and secret passwords wouldn't be a thing. Now that it is a thing, you have to make a decision on what to do about it. Unless you're actually willing to file for divorce, your WW isn't likely to EVER see a reason for backtracking and re-litigating her adultery. Why would she want to do that? SHE is comfortable in the current dynamic. Dredging all that stuff up again isn't comfortable. In fact, it's embarrassing and punitive from her POV. Don't forget, you've allowed her to think all was forgiven for 12 years, so for 12 years, she has BELIEVED that she was forgiven. Now all of the sudden, the rug you two have been sweeping together is pulled out from under her?.. you bet she's gonna be mad about that.

So, I think you have to ask yourself, what exactly are you wanting to find in her Facebook? Are you hoping for evidence of wrong-doing so you can divorce her? Why not just divorce her now? If you really feel like you need to catch her out in some kind of shenanigans, have you considered doing a polygraph?.. or simply demanding that she hand over all her passwords and make her social media, emails, and apps available for your inspection on pain of immediate divorce?? I think it would only be fair to offer your own in return. Hell, my fWH and I keep a password book that we BOTH use for whatever we sign into.

It all just depends on how far you want to take this thing, right? I decided early on that I was NOT going to drive myself crazy looking for details, most of which would amount to nothing but morbid curiosity and would injure me further. I already had way more information than what I needed since I had broken into his email and seen stuff I can't ever wash out of my brain. Bottom line, most of us end up going through this compulsive drive to know everything. But we can never know every little detail of what goes on in another person's heart and mind. You can drive yourself mad but you're never going to understand WHY... not really. Did I need to know my fWH fucked somebody? Yeah, he fucked a few somebodies. Do I need to know how it was or what positions they used? No. There are some people who claim they need that and who will follow those compulsions as far down the rabbit hole as it will go, and you know what? ..that's their choice. But there's NOTHING you can find out which will make adultery okay. What happened was NOT okay. And we have to find a way to live with that whether we decide to stay in the marriage or to end it. No amount of detail changes that. This fixation with the details is a red herring which keeps you from dealing with the real problem and the real problem is that what she did was NOT OKAY.

If you want to go back and correct the rugsweep, you're most likely going to need to stand up and face some conflict on the stuff that bugs you. WHY has she shopped for years in a place where she might run into a guy she committed adultery with? WHERE are her boundaries in that regard? Where is her empathy regarding how YOU might feel about that? Is she incapable of walking a mile in your shoes?? She's not going to like answering those questions and she's not going to see the need for it. But if this is what YOU need, you're not serving yourself by holding it in. Conflict is only bad when it's not constructive. Otherwise, it's opportunity for solving problems.