SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you really want to consider staying, insist on a polygraph, it's probably the only way you will get the truth.

Cheaters rarely stop when they are allowed to rug sweep. I'd be surprised if this was her only instance of cheating.

I'm very sorry you've been abused for all of these years but like others have said, it's not too late to take your dignity back.

CJ your story just goes to show that rugsweeping does not work. Even the BS that say they stayed, I don't think most of them ever get back to where they were prior to the A.

TO those that say they built an even better marriage b/c of the affair...

Its sad to see you're here 12 yrs later and you never got your truth and were never able to heal. I hope you are able to find peace in your decision no matter what it is, and are able to heal. Don't let this linger any longer, get your answers and heal. YOu don't want to think about this shit on your dealt bed and have regrets.

It has been a long time. See if your WW has the ability to fix things and keep us updated

Bump

Hi everyone,

Sorry it’s been awhile, had a lot going on, got sick for a little while, but still here!

I spoke to a D attorney, it’s going to cost a lot of $. He told me I should have done this years ago and it would have been much better for me.

I was able to find out that my fear of my WW continually visiting the OMs workplace was wrong. He hasn’t been there for many years. I was also able to find where he works now and it is not a place my WW would go.

I told her I wanted to talk about the affair and she was agreeable to that. We talked for about 90 minutes and I tried to bring up what was still bothering and/or made no sense to me.

She did confirm several things I’ve always suspected/known.

WW was the instigator and OM did not know she was still actively married.
OM was upset when he figured out we were still together
OM broke it off when he started dating someone that was unattached.
OMs GF at the time visited their work and would just stare at my WW
Used to go over to his apartment to "hang out" 3 or 4 times.

All sound plausible.

Then the confusing talk came back:

Said the OM was "an absolute disaster" and a "complete loser" and she kept saying to herself "don’t do it, don’t do it" this guy is a mess
Later she said she was deeply in love with him and was going to leave me for him, but $ and the kids opinion of her kept her from doing it
Next she said in the 3 or 4 months of the A that he listened to her more than I did in our entire M, which isn’t possible.
So, he’s a "disaster" and a "loser" that she’s deeply in love with?/??

The few times I’ve spoken to this POS he can barely string a sentence together so unsure of the depth of his conversational skills.

Then we came to the 2 main parts:

1.) She insists the sex was one time, missionary only, no oral with a condom and that he didn’t finish. Exactly the story 12 years ago but with an important addition. She shared a "problem" he supposedly has that is somewhat unique. And it immediately brought back a memory I had from 12 years ago. She told me the same detail last time as well. I have never heard of it in the way she described it. Afterwards I googled it and it does exist. (although her explanation of the net result doesn’t make sense) Sorry I’m being vague on that detail, It’s unique enough that I’m worried it might eventually come up in a search engine. Is that crazy thinking on my part? She also made a couple of comments about it being only one time and that she wasn’t coming home and having sex with me after him or sleeping with him in our bed or anything like that. (also she reminded me of all the freat sex we had during the A, which is true. Asked her about that and she admitted the sneaking around turned her on)

2.) The emails that I have that show she reinitiated contact with him months after the A ended and continued or year or so were completely denied. She asked to see them and I declined. I said "you wrote them, not sure what you need to see" We kind of skipped over it.

I told her I thought all along she had been seeing OM at his work. She denied and said she didn’t even know where he was. I said I know, I checked. She did know he was married, but not that his W and he had bought a house. Asked me how I knew since his FB was locked down. Did not disclose.

We revisited the A a few days later and this one gave a few more details, but when I told her the sex story made no sense to me she got angry when I basically repeated her story verbatim and asked her if this sounds like what 2 adults in a months long affair would do. She also got even angrier when I told her I googled his "condition" Not sure if she is still protecting him or what on that one.

Not even really sure anymore what I’m after or if I should even bother. I doubt she’ll ever tell it all and honestly, even if she did, i probably wouldn’t believe her.
The crazy thing is I *know* the sex once deal is nonsense. The "he was no good at it" story is pretty typical. 2 adults alone in an apartment and all the other times she went over there they just watched TV. I think I’m more insulted by that rather than the sex. Asked her why she specifically said in her breakup letter that she wished they "could do it one more time" and he was great in bed. "One more time" implies plural. She didn’t say "i wish we could have done it more than once. She says it’s just how she wrote it. She only told him he was great in bed because she had led him on that she wasn’t married and she felt bad because of his issue.

So basically the same. To be honest with everyone, if she said she had done it 50x and it was the best sex she ever had I probably still wouldn’t left. I don’t understand what she gains in this fantasy.

Anyway, I know this is long and thanks for reading. Not even sure anymore what I’m trying to accomplish. Can’t stop thinking about the A. It’s literally the first thing I think of in the morning. WW will not give me closure. Have thought about going to speak with OM. He really may have been unaware for most of it (not all)

Why in the hell are you still with this woman.

Will leaving enable you to stop thinking about her A? Will leaving teach you to assert yourself in a relationship? My guess is the answers are no and no.

That's an observation, not a criticism. There's a lot of conventional wisdom about M and other relationships that we adopt, and we each make our own choices about what to accept and what to reject. Most (all? almost all?) of us have some thoughts about relationships that are awful and some thoughts that are great. You chose some that haven't served you well. You can change your beliefs about yourself and your M, if you choose to do so.

The thing is, I think you need help to make those changes. You had a bad experience in MC. You can at least look for a good IC, and you can probably find one whom you trust. I'd bet that's your fastest way to heal from your W's A.

*****

You've stifled yourself. You've accepted lie after lie. You still don't believe your W. It will cost money to get out of your M, and just getting out without healing WILL leave you lonely and less well-off. If you heal, D will free you, perhaps to become even more well-off than you are now, perhaps to become satisfied with your financial status whatever it may become.

As old Wallet Kelly would probably say, 'You have met the enemy, and he is you.' You haven't healed for over 12 years. That says to me you won't heal without help, so ... get help.

Why tolerate lying? Never do that. If I think my spouse is lying that is sufficient for me to get out. I will not live that way. Anyone who tolerates lying and stays really is getting what they get.

Good grief. I'd say, what, 90% of them give that no physical line at first. I got this same trickle truthing. I finally came to understand that the anger was just knee jerk reaction to feeling attacked. So they deny, deny, deny admitting only as much as they have to. You have to get it by badgering (in their opinion), but that just means they've been stalling and hedging.

This forum makes me see that maybe I'm lucky a little in this area though it felt like anything but that. He did absolutely follow NC and has not seen or communicated with her to this day - and she is my sister-in-law! My brother died and I had to endure her presence for the memorial services. I actually had to email correspond with her about some land matters in my family. It took years to be able to do that. But he never broke NC.

I guess I should be grateful but I tell you nothing makes up for the general disrespect of the affair if you don't get the full story. Finally, I got enough info on all the main areas that I didn't want to mess with his stupid ego any more.

'rk But I remember thinking I could not have done it if he had not confessed.

Bottom line: it should be all up you. He owes it to you.

Hi

Sounds like you're still moving forward, 'little by little' but you've realised that whatever she tells you is never going to be enough! Talking to the OM, may well give you the resolution you require, let me explain: After a year I went and saw the OM, he didn't give much away but he wanted to stay married and no trouble at his door, so he mentioned a few things that completely contradicted what I'd been told!! My biggest mistake, was not having specific questions to ask (write all them down!!), you think you know what she isn't telling you, why not find out but be aware he may contact your wife - would this or could this affect things at home or are you done anyway??

I stayed for many reasons at the time but knew I'd be leaving and have planned accordingly. It sounds so easy to do it but it's hard work, draining and a mindf*ck at times being on the roller coaster but I felt it was worth it. There's no doubt that IC, good living and lots of exercise plus catching up and making new friends really helps. When you saw the lawyer, did you ask, what difference it would make if you waited say a year until you've got yourself organised and your head in a better place, for example?

Unfortunately, having also done 'rug-sweeping' and 'the pick me dance' as well - it never works out!! The elephant always stays in the room but at some points he slaps you with his trunk and it hurts!! Keep posting, everyone is here to help and learn as well!!

WW will not give me closure.

I think you're going to have to gift yourself some closure because I doubt that you're going to get it from her or the OM.

What you do think that could look like for you? Are you prepared to leave her?

Is she willing to take a polygraph test?

Did she explain why you were omitted from her FB? It's relevant because omitting her marital status is consistent with the lie she told the OM; and appears suspiciously like she's hoping the OM will find and reunite with her.

A poster made the following comment:

TO those that say they built an even better marriage b/c of the affair...

I haven’t heard a single poster ever state that the infidelity made their marriage better.
I have heard dozens and even hundreds state that the WORK done after the infidelity has made their marriage better. Many of them (if not all) will also share that the work could have been done without the infidelity ever having taken place.

Reconciliation is WORK. It doesn’t just "happen" simply because 12 years have passed.
I encourage you to have a serious talk with your wife. Tell her about your unhappiness and that if this can’t be changed then maybe you two would be better off divorced. No – don’t fear what the attorney said – divorce tends to be fair. At least nothing you didn’t have the opportunity to read about and understand when you signed the marriage contract.

Maybe get some MC. Try to communicate about what you two really want. See if it’s the same thing. Make it clear to her that you sort-of WANT to reconcile, but simply don’t know how. But that you are clear that the absolute truth and accountability will help you go a long way.

She has offered, in conversation, to take a polygraph. I believe she could pass the polygraph though.

She has added me on her FB and listed our anniversary. As to why she hadn’t before I asked, she said it was because I never had a Facebook, which is true until recently.

We have tried to have 2 recent talks about the affair. Second one really ended in an argument over specific details of the "one time" sex. Said it was humiliating (talking about it)I did confirm a few suspicions and heard a few new things that made sense.

I am considering IC.

I’m sorry I’m not taking a lot of the advice I would give others. I feel trapped and shouldn’t.

Really considering approaching the OM to have a conversation. I know most people say nothing good can come of it, but I think I’m going to do it anyway. Even a few answers would be something. It’s mind boggling to me that this is the guy she chose. Complete loser.

I am not necessarily advocating speaking to the OM but, if you do, strategize a bit. I've never done it but I think others here must have. Don't reveal what your wife told you, instead use open ended questions or give data different to what your wife said and see how he reacts.

So don't ask "did you only have sex one time?"

Instead, ask "how many times did you have sex?"

Or maybe even better, "it seems like you only had sex about 5 times, is that correct?"

I am sorry that you are going through this. 12 years is a long time and I wonder how much longer you can go on like this. The constant nagging in the back of your head about the details of the A, if you could ever really trust your spouse, what your marriage really means, etc. It will take a toll on your physical, mental, and emotional well-being. But sometimes we get stuck and can’t get out until an external force drives us out, in essence "rescuing" us.
But I understand the predicament you are in. You seem trapped in your own head, almost paralyzed and don’t know what to do. I guess this is why they say being betrayed is a traumatic experience. You are suffering from deep trauma. I am sorry. I am in a similar boat as you… In my logical head, I know what I need to do but I have a hard time getting my heart to agree to do it. I so wish for the reality to be different than what it actually is. I don’t want to believe that my spouse is XYZ. I want to desperately believe that all is well. I hope you can find clarity and courage to do what is ultimately right for you.

It is totally ok to stay married and just emotionally remove yourself from her. You can emotionally divorce, old school style. Imagine kings and queens who remain married but vacation separately, have side chicks, have good friends. Find peace in your own life, and maybe it’s cheaper to keep her. I get it.

But stop putting your emotional eggs in her basket because she straight up sucks. She can’t be trusted and she’s an immature brat.

I’m sorry.

You can also pull a "I love you but I’m not in love with the you" to her and pull away. Seek solace in anything and everything other than her. Not advocating to go fuck other people, but this is your life. You deserve to be happy. If you can’t divorce, then separate mentally. Or even physically. Get separate bedrooms. Take up art and rent a "studio" that you stay in late…. Oopsy doodles, I was working on my painting then fell asleep on my futon. I’ll just shower at the studio before work.

Separate to get some clarity.

CJD.

Please.

Get the IC you need to realize that you're worth more than you give yourself credit for. She's not taken responsibility.

She didn't do the work. She should have. She won't. She wants you to forget so she can feel less guilty. She doesn't care what it did to you.

Mine? Mine took 15 years. In that 15 years she had another affair. I signed with the lawyer yesterday and I signed for divorce yesterday also.

I love my wife. She loves me. I want her to be okay, I want her to get help. I tried to get the help for her so we could heal together. I finally realized I am not responsible for that. Only she can fix that.

I love you because you are me. Please stop torturing yourself.

Her response to your FB question did not explain why she did not identify herself as married.

Why do you feel she'd pass a polygraph test?

She probably wants to read all the messages to find out how much you really know, but honestly after all these years, if I was in your shoes at this point all that would be irrelevant, she has been lying all these years and kept breaking NC trying to reach him for years after the A, she even denies that even after you mentioned what she wrote on those emails.

I would just file for D and have her served, she has shown you she's a liar and would always deny things even after confronted with evidence (emails breaking NC), you know she's still lying so why bother ? And the reason why her status on FB was wasn't married is probably because she was hoping POSOM (s) would look her up and buy her still "being single story". She even admitted she would have left you for him had it not been for the money and what her kids would think of her (that alone should be reason enough to D), plus he dumped her what if he hadn't ?. Please end this farce and get out of infidelity, life's too short, don't waste another "12 years" and get out now.

[This message edited by Buster123 at 12:56 PM, Friday, November 12th]

Thank you for all the replies.

Have an appointment with an IC later today, so we'll see how that goes.

I totally agree that tolerating lying should be unaccpetable. My WW has lied constantly during our marriage, whether it's about money, past relationships, shopping, bills, etc. Writing this, I always ask myself what I'm doing here. I feel trapped, but I know I'm really not. It's maddening I can;t drag myself into reality.

I think I said it before, but after the final discovery of the PA, she did quit her job and acted remorseful. Still had the BS story, but I thought it was getting better. After catching the messaging 8 months after finally breaking it off, it was devastating but I never mentioned it to her. I just kept watching . Final messaging was 7 months after that. So, total time between supposed NC was 15 months. After total radio silence for a year, I just stopped checking and more or less shut down for almost 10 years. We had nice vacations and dinners out but no real intimacy. So, I think I did emotionally divorce from her for some time.

Daily Gratitude- This is essentially what I think I might be looking for: "But sometimes we get stuck and can’t get out until an external force drives us out, in essence "rescuing" us." I think I want to catch her doing something again so I can leave. Ridiculous, I know. Shouldn't need an excuse.

Someone asked what I think closure would look like if I could choose. Sometimes I think if she would just tell the truth everything could get better. But to be fair, I'm not sure it would. Might be worse. If what I think is true is true, then not only has she been lying to me for 12 years but then I have all the flashbacks and mind movies like with that breakup email.

Robert22205https-She never really answered the FB question. Said she always kept her personal details private on FB because she didn't want random people messaging her. As to the polygraph, I believe she lies so much she could pass or she would never accept the outcome. She lies about an email that she wrote, that I have screenshots of with timestamps. So, I don't think a polygraph is going to concern her.

Sorry about the rambling.