SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You're not in reconciliation. You're in rugsweep.

The pain will continue until you bring the hammer down.

This is another leftover from the rugsweep. If appropriate boundaries had been established at that time, keeping hidden friends and secret passwords wouldn't be a thing.

Yes, you're right. Letting it sit, swept under the rug for more than a decade has made it exponentially worse. Spent what downtime I had today re-reading those f***ing texts, screenshots and emails.

I'm going to demand a full written timeline tonight and give her 48 hours to comply. I know she won't be honest. She simply won't.

Have also thought of strolling in to visit good old Mr. POSOM for a frank exchange of viewpoints on this issue, or just emailing his new wife the cornucopia of exchanges after they started dating.

And, I found a IC that specializes in betrayal counseling and have an appt. Wednesday.

I'm still struggling with a reason why this all boiled over this year with me.

Also, have your therapist cover trauma bonds with you. It happens in narc relationships & may help you understand why it's so difficult for you to leave. It's different from co-dependency but still messes with your brain.

I found a IC that specializes in betrayal counseling and have an appt. Wednesday.

I'm still struggling with a reason why this all boiled over this year with me.

My advice would be to NOT do any of those other things until after you had found that counselor and met up a few times. You are NOT the first person this has happened to. I've seen several people come through here where they really felt like they were mostly okay with how their R had gone. Then, something happens which they experience as a trigger, but instead of going away as they've become accustomed to triggers going away, suddenly they find that the betrayal FEELS recent and anquishing again.

I do think this is a trick of the brain and has more to do with the way we store traumatic information than anything different going on in the relationship. I also think it's a shame to ruin an R which has served you well (IF it has indeed been serving you well). That's part of the question. Are you overall happy in the marriage? Is it primarily this compulsive need to find more evidence which is making you unhappy?

Years and years ago, I knew this elderly lady who was super active up into her mid-90's. She was still driving her own car, living on her own, doing her own shopping, and even caring for her ailing husband who had Alzheimers. But if you were to spend an hour talking to her, you'd find out that all through their marriage, he was cheating on her. Every time they moved, she'd find out he already had a new girlfriend in that town before she and the kids had even arrived. She'd also tell you that he was trying it on with the care nurse who came into their home several times a week and trying to get to his current girlfriend's house via the lawn tractor.

Here's the thing though, this guy was practically comatose in his wheelchair by then. There was no way he was flirting with the nurse or climbing onto the lawn tractor. In fact, when questioned about the bruises on her hands and arms.. the thinking being that although her husband was confined to a wheelchair maybe he had become combative.. it turns out that she was hitting him with her hands and bruising herself in the process. This was an absolutely LOVELY lady, very kind, flawless manners, but for some reason, this history of cheating had become alive again in her mind.

After having EMDR, I'm convinced that it's all about how our brain's process and store traumatic information. Note that scientists don't really understand how EMDR (eye movement desensitization and reprocessing) works, but that it does mimic the pattern we experience during REM sleep. After my fWH's betrayal, I didn't dream for like a year! Any time my mind went near the trauma, I popped back up and didn't sleep again for hours. Even now, I might tolerate the knowledge that "he cheated", but NOT any specific information. Other BS's report months, even years, of nightmares, so we don't all process and store in our sleep, right? How many different ways are there to store this information? And what happens if that method becomes corrupted or compromised?

Anyway, long post made shorter, I'm convinced that this is very often a symptom of faulty trauma storage and that the compulsive need to get more and more detail is a symptom, not the main event. In your case, there's been a rugsweep though, and I think that has added to the overall trauma. You were never able to re-establish safety in the relationship. Some of the things which might have made you feel safe and valued were never brought to the table, like transparency on passwords and REAL EMPATHY so that your WW would have already understood that shopping in a place where she might run into her former AP is/was wrong.

You might read through a copy of The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk for more information on trauma. He is, without argument, the world's premier expert on the subject. I found his book easy to read and was strangely comforted afterward, realizing that so much of my reaction was NORMAL for the circumstances. My other advice to you would be to try to make an honest assessment of how happy/unhappy you are in this relationship. When you take the trauma away, does it suit your needs?

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 4:04 PM, July 19th (Monday)]

CT, could you start a separate thread on EMDR and how it helped? I'm desperate for anything that would stop dreams with AP popping into them, etc. I would just like to read more about your experience with it.

I think we had one not too long ago. Let me see if I can find it....

I was exactly in your place. 12 years ago. I too found this sight. I too chose your path.

My ending is different.

Not by my choice tho. I would still be there. I would still be insane. Yep. That’s what it was.

What happened? exwh is Npd. I Heard that here Didn’t believe it at first. Exwh became chronic alcoholic. I didn’t believe that at first. When he realized this. When they found brain damage. When he kept relapsing. He left me. For another woman. One who drank.

Don’t let these symptoms mislead you.

I was cruelly discarded. He was so mean. I could go on forever about that. I finally started researching Npd. And alcoholism. I realized this was way bigger then I knew. And the big acceptance? He can Never change. Ever.

This same pain will be happening in 20 more years. And it will be worse. They can’t change. They can’t love That was hard . It was hard to believe. To compare facts to the human I loved.

I spent 3 years researching studying learning. I now accept it. I am now divorced. I am now alone. I never wanted to be divorced. Ever.

I’m ok. I’m learning to build a new life. It’s different At times lonely. But it’s quiet. Without cruelty. Without cheating and lies. I had to see that hopeless is really hopeless. And things can someday become dangerous.

Yes we sold everything. Split money. Family has been damaged. But it’s over. He is still the same. Treating women cruelly Still falling apart. I couldn’t stop him.

Sometimes life changes. Sometimes we can’t stop it or change them.

Step away from infidelity symptoms and reactions. Start researching Npd. I’ve heard you should read about it at least a year. I did. I kept learning. I kept accepting.

I know I would still be with him. It’s a blessing he left me.

I was so stuck in the affair. I needed to see the bigger picture.

I could not fix this. He can not change. Sometimes over is over. I hate that. It’s the truth.

I was stuck. I was stuck in the details of his affair. I was stuck in the disbelief of who he really is. For 12 years I would still ruminate the details. What he did. What he said. How they did it. How many times. In 12 years. Those facts were the same. I was so very stuck. I was not healed at all.

I regret how many years I tried. It was very clear from the beginning that he wasn’t repairing or sorry. He just wanted me to get over it. He cheated again. I regret how many years I was stuck. I wasted.

All for nothing. I received nothing from him. No sorry. No effort. No trying. It was only me trying.

I was divorced at 60. Chances are a lot lower to rebuild that happy life after 60. Don’t waste your life. Give yourself the gift of time.

Yes. My exwh had different issues then your wife. Don’t let that block you from seeing your still stuck. Nothing improved if they don’t improve. Looking back. I was never happy in those 12 years. I was hanging on. I was at least still married. I was depressed. Thinking it’s kind of an ok day. It’s not hellish today. That’s something.

Live for a real day. A happy day. A day where you feel joy. I ate out yesterday. Patio eating. Watching cars go by. I felt joy. It was a strange unfamiliar feeling. It was real.

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 1:34 PM, July 20th (Tuesday)]

Did you return hone? How was it?

If she is still in denial mode there is not much you can do.

Hopefully she starts seeing that what you want from her is what you NEED in order to heal and will want that as much as you do.

I recommend that you define and set boundaries and requirements in order for you to stick around and work on the marriage.

One would be her Never setting foot in that store again. She needs to show she’s thinking of your pain more than her own.

But we can work with you on others. A timeline is a good next step.

Just got home. Texted WW earlier that I would be home in about 3 hours, she said she was going to go see her Mom for a little while ( not unusual)and was wanting to talk when I got home.

It’s past 10:00 pm here, her mother is 82 years old and she’s not home yet. She’s never been out this late with her Mom that I can remember….

Really? Can’t wait to hear the story and see if she has the timeline done.

This is crazy, it ‘s not even close to being plausible. I might drive over to her mom’s (15 mins) and see what the deal is. Have not unpacked bag.

She just texted me that she got pulled over because her headlights weren’t on and she didn’t know how to turn them on. Now she has to stop for gas.

Of course.

Putting the bag back in the car.

I screwed up big 12 years ago. Should have got D immediately.

She doesn't know how to turn the headlights on? How long has she been driving? How long has she been driving this car? And she doesn't know how to turn the headlights on.

They'll spin any kind of story. My XWW was late getting home one night after work. I couldn't contact her because, guess why, she didn't want to talk to me. Her story was that the truck smelled hot like an electrical issue so she pulled off the highway on a side road. It is a highway she drove for years with a rest stop half a mile up the road but she pulled off on a side road. She said she was there for an hour. She was waiting for the truck to cool off so she could take the rad cap off to see if she was low on coolant. For and electrical issue? Maybe check the overflow. Oh, there's coolant in it. No need to take the cap off the rad. She called me just as she was leaving the spot to tell me the story and say she would be home in 10. I asked why she didn't call me and why her phone was off. She said she wanted to look after it herself.

Truth: Found out after DDays. She'd been with POS. He was following her from his place to come to the city for something. She pulled off. He pulled off behind her. They took the rad cap off so coolant would spill out and there would be evidence if I demanded to go see.

They lie and then lie some more. Lying liars who lie.

Too late now but a quick call to your MIL after her call and ask to speak to your WW. She may never have been at Mom's.

She just texted me that she got pulled over because her headlights weren’t on and she didn’t know how to turn them on.

How stupid does she think you are? If she's drunk or on drugs, I could believe this but it sounds like a ridiculous lie she made up to explain why she is coming home so late.

It sounds like she's panicking about the timeline. She's probably scrambling to remember the lies she told you and how much to reveal to make it look like she's being honest now. If she does not produce a truthful timeline by the deadline, you absolutely should take that bag and go.

Call her mom up. See how the visit went

You aren't the only one who screwed up years ago. You and I aren't the only ones in the club either.

The things I didn't do are what haunt me. The plague me. My IC helped me with that but I've regressed. My IC asked me if I had forgiven myself as part of that therapy. I haven't had an IC session for a year and a half. I probably should book another one.

Just wanted you to know that you are not alone. You and I are not alone. There are many more who subjected themselves to unnecessary years.

There are many more who subjected themselves to unnecessary years.

*raises hand* like 7 years longer than I should have.

(((cjd1234))) sorry you are here. Life is better on the other side of this. I also should have D'd after the first D-Day. My kids were young and I was petrified of being D'd.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 4:33 PM, July 21st (Wednesday)]

Was able to verify she was with her mom. ( just asked her) She did get a new car recently and the auto headlight switch was off, so there’s that.

The timeline was a joke. I give her credit for remembering the 12 year old “ one time, one position, no fun” story. When pressed said that was all and it was so long ago.

So, I left and have been gone since.

Yesterday, she texted me and said she had set her relationship status on Facebook to married and added me as friend. (very generous). Had several comments from people saying “ I thought you were already married?” because I guess it shows that she was just married? Not a big social media person.

Seeing lawyer Thursday.

How thoughtful of her to finally declare her marital status online. She'll get to change it again soon.

The thing about untrustworthy people is that there's never just one red flag waving. They pop up over and over again. Maybe she is the one-in-a-million who is telling the truth about the A. Maybe she really does just happen to hang around OM's work and doesn't see or talk to him. Maybe she is really just so dense that she didn't notice driving at night with her headlights off and the cop wasted hours of her time over it. Maybe she wasn't intentionally hiding her marital status and her FB activity from you by not including you in it. But all four? Plus whatever other unbelievable lies she's been caught in? She'd have to be a lottery winner to be the most misunderstood woman on the planet AND simultaneously earning that distrust with her repeated DDays and broken NC. Even if one or two of these little inconsistencies is harmless, she is lying to you about the others and it's impossible for you to know or trust anything she says right now.

Hey, how are you doing?

Hang in there - I can totally relate to your post, a lot of people can!!

Get the legal advice, maybe from a couple of sources and start making 'informed decisions'.
Can you plan your way out, could some time help you or would you just prefer to burn it down now?

You do You!!

I screwed up big 12 years ago. Should have got D immediately.

You know pal, a lot of us screwed up.

You know something else, I think you've beaten yourself up enough. 12 years of being hard on yourself is enough.

Work hard on looking forward and thinking about what your life can be 12 months from now, not what it was 12 years ago.

Seems like your recent break from your wife did you some good. Keep being your own man, don't let her push you around.